Tuesday, February 21, 2012

Another Murder Accusation in Deborah's Book

After Deborah's fantastic boy-killed-by-his-own-father-for-masturbating story was proven bogus (as if it even had to be proven) some of her defenders said, OK that was one "little lie"...

But it turns out that she has another crazy murder story in her book. This one is even crazier and dopier. On page 86 she claims that the Rabbi's "only daughter" was pushed down some stairs to her death while she the rabbi's daughter was pregnant with the Rabbi's successor. She was killed, Deborah claims, because some other people had their eyes on this position. She claims that this incident took place in the Satmar Shul (located on 152 Rodney St. in Brooklyn.)

I know what you are thinking. This is such a crazy story that it doesn't even deserve mention. But we are on a mission here, to prove Deborah a liar and a fraud, so we will give this silly story a platform and then debunk it.

The Satmar Rabbi Joel had "three daughters from his first marriage: Esther, Rachel and Roysele. They all died in his lifetime: Esther died during childhood; Rachel died 6 months after she married ... and Roysele (the only of his children to survive the holocaust) died in 1953."

Since Roysele was the only one to survive the holocaust Deborah obviously refers to her. Now, here is the problem: Roysele passed away in 1953, while 152 Rodney St. was not in Satmar's possession until February 20, 1967. (As a search on NYC's "Acris" system shows.)

There is another problem with Deborah's story, namely, Roysele was infertile for 47 years and here Deborah brings us this fantastic revelation that Roysele was actually expecting a child (A boy or a girl?) before she was "killed" in a synagogue that didn't even exist at that time.

For those who don't know: Rabbi Joel's first wife and three daughters suffered from hereditary cardiac disease, and as mentioned, all of them passed away at a young age. None of the daughters were ever pregnant. Only newlywed Rachel was pregnant.

A pity on Deborah for all the nightmares that she suffered because of "those" stairs, as per her fairy tale...

12 comments:

  1. SR is this the first time you heard this story?
    I can find you a lot of people who are still in the fold who believe this story
    I'm not saying it's true I wasn't there but to tarnish the book as lies because of this story is wrong
    This story is told in a lot of Frum homes in satmer

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    1. WRONG, this story is NOT told in Satmar. You just made it up.

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    2. No? In which Satmar did YOU grow up in?

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  2. An interesting observation. All this has proven though is that yet ANOTHER Chassidish Maise whispered from person-to-person isn’t true. I’ll admit that my expertise is the history of the Chabad movement, their families and writings; I know very little about Joel Teitelbaum and his family. But I’m certain that there are who may have heard this rumor.

    To put it bluntly: If Deborah Feldman had been thinking of a Baal Shem Tov story in that chapter, we would have all the analysts proving (probably correctly) that the story couldn’t have happened because of time and dates. MOST stories told by Rebbes and amongst Chassidim aren’t true. For further reading, I suggest Shea Mundshein’s excellent “Sipurim V’gliguleihem” series.

    Why is she STILL not lying? Context is everything. Unless you can prove that there was no such rumor among Chassidic children, your work is still cut out for you. You seem to be making a claim that she never could have heard such a thing because it didn’t happen. I present as a counterargument every Baal Shem Tov and Rebbe maise ever told to us as children.

    Yareh Ha’am V’yishpot

    Context is everything.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Great point David about the Baal sham tov story's

      And שי״ג book מושיען של ישראל about R' Yoel TB has more lies then Feldman's book

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  3. As much as i know as a chasid, there was NEVER such a rumor within satmar chasidim that the rebbes daughter was pushed down a flight of steps while pregnant and being killed as a result, simply NEVER. what really was a rumor is, that she was pushed down a flight of steps in her father's home. but by all accounts she wasn't harmed by the incident.

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    Replies
    1. So you admit there was a rumor of her being pushed down a flight of steps.

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    2. "By all accounts she wasn't harmed by the incident"
      Number 1 I thought there was only one roumer
      Number 2 do you know she passed away 8 weeks after the alleged incident

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  4. I respectfully ask the readers to keep the conversations mature and on topic.

    1. If you are not at least 18, please don't comment.

    2. If don't know how and when to use a comma, quotation mark, dot etc. don't comment.

    3. If you are unfamiliar with some facts (e.g. "fourth grade education" accusation) google it.

    4. If you heard some rumors in fifth grade don't discuss it here.

    5. If it sounds stupid to your own ears, it is going to sound stupid to the reader. Don't post it here.

    I ask the readers to cooperate so that we don't have to moderate the comments.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "4. If you heard some rumors in fifth grade don't discuss it here."

      If you will, RS will make sure to publicize your lies.

      Delete
  5. Being a Satmar Chusid, i've heard this rumer.
    Now to a few points to the story.
    First, as writen in the article the Rebe had 3 daughters. Ester passed away as a girl in year 5681, Rachel passed away in year 5691. If Rachel was pregnant or not I don't know. Roize'la, the last daughter of the Rebe wasn't liked by the people in the Rebes court.... (I will not write the reason,due to the fact that i don't want to write on people not alive anymore).
    Now to the story. 1)The fact that she was pushed down the stairs (the only place it couldv'e been would be in the Rebes house at 500 Bedford Av.) makes scenes, but don't I can't know if it is in fact true.
    2)If she passed away in results to an abuses, meaning pushed down steps is a total lie.
    3)The rumer was spread by people that opposed the Beirach Moishe as the next Rebes, they claim that the people that wanted to see him as Rebe pushed her down and killed the Rebes successor.
    Now, this part of the story can also not be true, since the people that didn't like her, and pushed her down stairs (if there was such a story) didn't like the Beirach Moishe either....
    4) The story that she was killed in result of this story goes together with the rumer that she was pregnant..
    So lets gather the facts and see if such a MURDER ever accured...

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    Replies
    1. Another point. Roize'la passed away in year 5714. Now, nobody can provide me with a date to this story woth the stairs...

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